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hello listeners I'm John Chapman and I listen to\h
need to know and I'm going to tell you my story\h\h

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about my time in Ukraine and what I saw stay tuned

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this is need to know real talk about the\h
reality of unidentified aerial phenomena\h\h

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from Australia Ross Colt\h
art from the U.S Bryce zabel

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hello and welcome to need to know my name is Ross\h
coulthart from Down Under in a small town near\h\h

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Sydney Australia and in Los Angeles my co-host and\h
good buddy Bryce zabel Bryce you're just back from\h\h

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a holiday in Italy I hear well I my family had\h
some friends who had a daughter getting married\h\h

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and we used that as an opportunity to go to\h
Sorrento and and I was brave enough to drive\h\h

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the Amalfi Coast and I survived so I'm feeling\h
pretty good about that feeling confident did you\h\h

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see any retrieved flying sauces while you're over\h
there there's that great story about the Mussolini\h\h

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Flying Saucer that the Americans allegedly\h
retrieved during the end of the second world\h\h

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war well it's it's an interesting story I mean\h
first of all um it illustrates that if you look\h\h

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into any particular country you find all the UFO\h
lore for it so the Italian UFO lore includes uh\h\h

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that 1933 recovery supposedly of a crash Flying\h
Saucer Mussolini was in power and the guy he put\h\h

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in charge of looking into it was Marconi the radio\h
man so it it kind of an interesting story whether\h\h

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it was recovered or Not by the Americans after the\h
war I don't know but I thought there was one other\h\h

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really interesting story that comes out of Italy\h
apparently uh 68 years ago this month in October\h\h

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of 1954 there was a major soccer game being played\h
and a UFO like a cigar people described it like a\h\h

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Cuban cigar came over the soccer stadium all\h
plays stopped there were ten thousand people\h\h

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in the stadium and there's pictures from the time\h
and everyone's kind of looking up at the sky and\h\h

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to this day you know people refer to that incident\h
it happened in Milan and it was a demonstrably big\h\h

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deal and then the other final piece of the Italian\h
uh UFO puzzle is contemporary uh there's uh we all\h\h

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know the Vatican is an independent country\h
uh basically inside of Italy there there's\h\h

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another one called San Marino a little country\h
inside Italy that the United Nations is being\h\h

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petitioned to turn into the the sort of home of\h
the United Nations uh UFO UAP investigation so\h\h

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that's my Italy report uh for now so while you've\h
been swatting around the fine beaches of Sorrento\h\h

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and the Mafi Coast the rest of us have been doing\h
some work mate and in the segments following we've\h\h

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got quite dramatic Revelations from the war in\h
Ukraine we have a former British soldier who is\h\h

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going to come on the program and he's not talking\h
about what it was that the Ukrainian astronomers\h\h

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saw he's talking about what he and his colleagues\h
saw in combat during a battle they looked up and\h\h

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they saw what they believe was something highly\h
anomalous more on that later but I thought we'd\h\h

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just catch up with the week's news because\h
there's been a lot happening and my favorite\h\h

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bit of news from the last few weeks Bryce is\h
the logo that is the um the aviation manager\h\h

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the National Intelligence manager for Aviation\h
for the office defense uh whatever it is odni\h\h

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National Intelligence intelligence yes and\h
um very very interestingly one minute they\h\h

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put a logo up with a brand new logo which has a\h
flying saucer in it a classic disc shaped Flying\h\h

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Saucer everybody gets excited the UFO Community\h
jumps up and down and says this is some sort of\h\h

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confirmation from an official intelligence\h
agency in the defense department and then\h\h

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just as mysteriously it gets taken down and\h
we are meant to believe that this logo with\h\h

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the dot mil URL was errantly posted which I think\h
is a flying ton of [\h__\h] I just don't believe it\h\h

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it sure sounds like it I mean here's the thing\h
though uh this thing did happen happened while\h\h

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I was off uh running around Italy as you pointed\h
out but uh it was up for a while and it is a logo\h\h

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that it literally shows a part of North America\h
and a part of South America and you see three\h\h

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things flying over it one of them I believe\h
is a commercial Jed another is a a fighter\h\h

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jet but literally out in left field over the\h
ocean uh to the left is what looks like a UFO\h\h

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um and uh I mean it is a UFO it's it's a classic\h
UFO and uh you know their their argument was well\h\h

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we put it out by accident honestly I've had\h
enough experience and I'm sure you have too\h\h

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where those kind of things are something\h
like that coming out by accident would be\h\h

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very rare now on the other hand uh we certainly\h
know that logos over the years are often used\h\h

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and put some crazy stuff in them uh and so\h
you can't really say well that proves anything\h\h

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other than it's kind of it's kind of bogus it just\h
sounds bogus and and people reacted to it that way\h\h

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now bro I think you're catching up but you're\h
doing some work next week at the international UFO\h\h

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Congress do you want to tell us about that sure I\h
just want to give a shout out to our friends over\h\h

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at the iufoc which uh they they throw a yearly\h
uh conference and it's always been fantastic I've\h\h

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spoken there uh several times and uh they had to\h
go into pandemic hiding for a couple of years last\h\h

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year it was virtual this is a time where people\h
are coming back and there's some really great\h\h

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uh people speaking at it it goes from I believe\h
October 12th through the 17th um and I'm speaking\h\h

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on October 15th which is a Saturday so I encourage\h
anyone who's near Mesa Arizona who wants to come\h\h

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and talk a little need to know to show up and\h
we'll we'll do that uh my the topic of my speech\h\h

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is called um estimate of the situation something\h
we've used before and then the question is uh\h\h

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will 2023 be Sizzle or fizzle and you and I have\h
talked about that as well and I'm gonna I guess\h\h

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now I've set myself up for the standard I have\h
to take a position on it so I'll be doing that\h\h

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I said what are you going to say are you going to\h
say physical Sizzle well I think we made maybe we\h\h

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disagree on this I think there are sufficient\h
things in uh motion right now that I look at it\h\h

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as a Sizzle I think we're going to have a Sizzle\h
I just think there's too much uh going on but I've\h\h

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got some you know Nuance to that now I know you\h
think 2023 is going to be a very big year but at\h\h

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the same time you're taking the position you think\h
it might just fizzle out so how do you how do you\h\h

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square that Circle okay let me explain what I'm\h
hearing is there is a considerable walk back at\h\h

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the moment about making any admissions publicly\h
so I do think that the Congress in private\h\h

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session is going to hear from whistleblowers\h
I don't think there's much doubt about that\h\h

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because what we do know is that the National\h
Defense authorization act will probably be\h\h

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passed for 2023 by the end of December and if that\h
happens and if the UAP whistleblower provisions\h\h

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survived the scrutiny of both the house and\h
the Congress then you will have Provisions\h\h

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in place to protect people who I know are\h
wanting to come forward and Chris Mellon\h\h

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has said the same thing and so has Gary Nolan\h
who said that he's actually spoken he told me\h\h

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that he'd actually spoken to whistleblowers and\h
I've spoken to people who've been approached by\h\h

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individuals in various parts of government asking\h
them whether they would be willing to testify so\h\h

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I I do think there is a move on for Testimony to\h
happen the big question is will this leak and well\h\h

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yeah I think it will I think let's split uh this\h
uh let's split this one more time the sizzle part\h\h

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of it will probably go most effectively to behind\h
closed door hearings in Congress and will feel\h\h

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like it's a fizzle because we all might get the\h
public hearing that we want where some of those\h\h

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same people come forward I hope that's not the\h
case I hope there are authentic public hearings\h\h

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but I'll tell you one thing you mentioned that the\h
the National Defense authorization act uh which\h\h

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was passed last it's passed every year and by the\h
way it has passed 61 years in a row because this\h\h

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is sort of the Holy Grail you don't let National\h
Defense Fall by the wayside so it's expected that\h\h

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it will pass in December remember last year's\h
uh which was sort of the Rubio agila brand and\h\h

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Gallegos Amendment really had some tough language\h
in it it demanded that yearly unclassified report\h\h

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that is due this year by October 31st well\h
this language this year is tougher in many many\h\h

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respects it's reorganizing things it's demanding\h
uh people look into the history of this from the\h\h

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intelligence point of view uh it's uh trying\h
to address people that have a problem with a\h\h

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non-disclosure statement that they've had to sign\h
so I think we're in for a time when at least there\h\h

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are some people in Congress who if they don't get\h
their way are going to be pretty damn pissed about\h\h

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it and uh so I think things are happening and\h
also again as we've talked about several times\h\h

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on this show we're coming up on October 31st of\h
this month and that is the last possible moment\h\h

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this year's public report is supposed to be filed\h
help remember the last public report was on June\h\h

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25th of 2021 and uh it it kind of knocked some\h
people aside and said they're real uh we don't\h\h

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make them and China and Russia probably don't make\h
them so what the follow-up report will be I don't\h\h

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know but hold on it's coming and it's coming\h
eight days before a midterm election yeah we\h\h

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can butt hype and as you've I think previously\h
noted whatever happens in the elections we're\h\h

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going to get a pro-uap senator true yeah well\h
in Florida we certainly are uh you know with\h\h

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all the terrible news coming out of Florida about\h
their weather and everything there's still a very\h\h

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uh bitter uh campaign going on in Florida for the\h
senate seat that is currently held by Marco Rubio\h\h

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and he's being challenged by Democrat Val demings\h
now what's interesting about that is that Rubio as\h\h

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as we all know has been very outspoken on the UAP\h
issue uh go figure but he's been the one who with\h\h

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the Jilla brand uh reached across the aisle they\h
had a bipartisan meeting the Minds on last year's\h\h

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ndaa and he's been very uh open in discussing\h
his concerns about UAP and National Security in\h\h

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various interviews well Val demings is a former\h
prosecutor she was on one of the intelligence\h\h

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committees and her statements uh after the May\h
17th uh public hearing that was held in Congress\h\h

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were very strong she basically said look as a\h
prosecutor I'm all about protecting uh people\h\h

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I'm about safety for constituents and certainly\h
that is how I'm going to approach the UAP issue\h\h

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we want to know answers since there's obviously\h
an increasing amount of these reports and we want\h\h

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to know where they're coming from and what and\h
if they're a threat to us so I think either way\h\h

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Florida is going to get a senator that's going to\h
be big on this topic now while we're talking about\h\h

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what might happen in Congress and the potential\h
for public hearings one of the witnesses of\h\h

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course whom we've all speculated we'd love to\h
see put under oath and deposed is Admiral Tom\h\h

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Wilson and there's been a significant development\h
in the Wilson notes for the listeners and viewers\h\h

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who aren't familiar with this there is a story\h
about a leaked or a document that came from the\h\h

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estate of Edgar Mitchell after Edgar Mitchell\h
died called the Wilson memo or the Wilson notes\h\h

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and it's a series of notes which purportedly\h
represent a conversation between a Department\h\h

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of Defense astrophysicist called Eric Davis Dr\h
Eric Davis and a former director of the defense\h\h

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intelligence agency a man called Admiral Thomas\h
Tom Wilson and the the leaked transcript of their\h\h

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conversation basically details how Tom Wilson\h
allegedly discovered and was subsequently denied\h\h

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full access to a incredible conspiracy a kind of a\h
black budget reversing engineering program hidden\h\h

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deep within the National Security State that\h
claims these documents claim that the Pentagon\h\h

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or somewhere under the intelligence Community\h
or more likely private Aerospace company that's\h\h

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been gifted this material has in its position an\h
intact craft a vehicle of non-human origin now I'm\h\h

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telling you all this in the Preamble because it's\h
important that in those notes there is mention of\h\h

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a man called Oak Shannon an oak is a former U.S\h
Navy veteran physicist he used to work at the Los\h\h

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Alamos National Laboratories and he's a key part\h
of these allegedly leaked notes which record this\h\h

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conversation between uh Tom Wilson and Eric Davis\h
because Tom Wilson to my friend and colleague\h\h

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Billy Cox and also to me specifically denied\h
knowing Oak Shannon he said he was unknown to\h\h

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Tom Wilson and in an interview with Jay Anderson\h
of Project Unity Oak Shannon has basically put it\h\h

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definitively on the record that he he does know\h
Admiral Wilson moreover he's confirmed on the\h\h

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record that the um the claims made in the notes\h
about a conversation he had with Tom Wilson to\h\h

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set up the meeting with Eric Davis and to find\h
out about Eric Davis and whether or not he was\h\h

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a good human being to talk to this happened and\h
Eric Davis allegedly um in the notes they went\h\h

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on and discussed the these things and what's\h
really important is Oak says that he really\h\h

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did discuss with Tom Wilson the reality that\h
a recovered non-human vehicle is being studied\h\h

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in extreme secrecy by this secretive group the\h
program somewhere somewhere inside government or\h\h

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somewhere inside Aerospace now that's a long and\h
involved explanation and probably not told very\h\h

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well but it's significant because Oak Shannon has\h
gone on the record and he's a very important Cog\h\h

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to giving the Wilson memo notes credibility and I\h
I think it's important I still don't accept that\h\h

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the notes are a definitive true and accurate\h
record because of course they are strenuously\h\h

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denied by Admiral Tom Wilson and conspicuously Dr\h
Eric Davis has never corroborated or confirmed the\h\h

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notes but neither has he denied the notes are\h
a genuine document so we're getting closer I\h\h

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think to a moment in Congress where people will be\h
able to be deposed and that's when it's going to\h\h

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start getting interesting it would be great to\h
see whether Oak Shannon is prepared to testify\h\h

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and whether Eric Davis and Tom Wilson are willing\h
to testify and say what they know I listen it's a\h\h

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it's a story that we need to be covering I kind of\h
volunteer as to in a future episode do the whole\h\h

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episode about it and frankly maybe we should do a\h
dramatic interp and read those notes uh word for\h\h

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word because I think that would be interesting uh\h
you know just a quick addition to that uh during\h\h

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the May 17th public uh hearings in the House of\h
Representatives representative Mike Gallagher out\h\h

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of uh Wisconsin actually had the Wilson Davis memo\h
put into the Congressional Record that doesn't\h\h

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mean anything per se because you can put anything\h
in the Congressional Record but he put it in and\h\h

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um let's face it uh what you suggested happening\h
Ross is would be if Congress had any balls about\h\h

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this thing they'd drag the whole lot of them\h
in and they would put them under oath and then\h\h

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they would uh ask them to tell the story and they\h
would cross-reference it and we get some answers\h\h

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now speaking of answers just last month or in fact\h
in the last few weeks there's been Revelations\h\h

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from Ukraine from Ukrainian astronomers who\h
claim they've seen anomalous objects in the sky\h\h

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now I know there's been rebuttal and debunking\h
of that notably by Avi Loeb and also by The\h\h

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Academy of Sciences in Ukraine but coming\h
up in the next segment we have an interview\h\h

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with a former British soldier John Chapman\h
who's going to tell us how he and his team\h\h

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a reconnaissance team behind the lines in\h
Russian Hill territory in Ukraine looked\h\h

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up during a battle and saw a UAP that's\h
coming up next on need to know can't wait

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stay with us we're back in a\h
moment because you need to know

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foreign

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so welcome back to need to know now we've\h
got something very interesting for you as\h\h

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I mentioned in the first segment there has\h
been some controversy about claims made by\h\h

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Ukrainian astronomers in the past few weeks\h
that they've seen anomalous objects in the\h\h

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Skies over Ukraine not surprising perhaps in\h
light of the fact that there's any number of\h\h

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airplanes drones Weaponry flying in and around\h
the skies but I'm going to introduce you now\h\h

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to a chap called John Chapman he's a former\h
British Army soldier g'day John how are you\h\h

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I'm good mate I'm good how are you in Australia\h
very well and I'll put you on to Bryce as well\h\h

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we appreciate you coming on this is a this is an\h
important story and and frankly uh it couldn't be\h\h

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more timely so take it away can you please give us\h
an account of who you are and your service history\h\h

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of what you feel comfortable telling us and uh\h
give us an idea of how and when you got to Ukraine

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um I'm actually infantry um I was in the Princess\h
of Wales as Royal regiment as a reconnaissance\h\h

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Soldier so that's what I specialized in\h
um shapes of vehicles airplanes you name\h\h

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it that was our job to report on to send up\h
a chain to uh our command structure to know\h\h

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what he's dealing against so that's sort of\h
my main role I also had a job in Yugoslavia\h\h

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well the Bosnia is now as a again uh close\h
reconnaissance and our sort of role was to

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um find pithwicks and they were people who\h
indicted for war crimes during the war so\h\h

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that was our sort of job which is quite a\h
important role getting them to The Hague\h\h

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and then um done many tours of Northern Ireland\h
during the tour um during the troubles um lots\h\h

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of different jobs including um intelligence work\h
um then I got out and become a close Protection\h\h

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Officer bodyguard as you might call it and then\h
um from there I sort of give up that sort of uh\h\h

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job to become a bit more normal\h
and become a builder but I also\h\h

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when I went down that route I kept my eyes on\h
geopolitics and stuff like that and um obviously\h\h

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the annexation of Crimea in Ukraine and I thought\h
it was going to end badly and then obviously the\h\h

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build up on the border uh in February and then\h
they invaded and um from there I looked at what\h\h

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was going on and the Catalyst for me going to\h
the Ukraine was there was a I think it was a BMP\h\h

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run over a a car and I think it was in car keys I\h
believe and I thought I can't have that I can't I\h\h

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can't sit here and watch bearing in mind I've been\h
to Bosnia and places like that and I know what\h\h

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ethnic cleansing and how that can be and I thought\h
I've got to do something and um I asked my wife\h\h

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and uh she wasn't happy for me to go obviously and\h
she said to me um you you've been there for about\h\h

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two weeks because I thought a week in fact because\h
I said on a Monday and I was gone by the Saturday\h\h

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so she gave me a sort of um blessings that were\h
with great teeth and I and I went across um I\h\h

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went through Poland and then across the border\h
which is all a range fruit Ukrainian Embassy in\h\h

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um London so the the network to get across was all\h
arranged and we went to a a sort of a Transit camp\h\h

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yaref and um that's where we sort of all the\h
people arriving from foreign Nationals John I\h\h

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want to just clarify this because I think some\h
people probably having the same question I'm\h\h

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having were you part of any official group\h
at that time were you part of any nation's\h\h

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military or were you no no no no no we were um\h
we was all ex-military however there was a few\h\h

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um how we say Walter matis who say there was\h
in things like paintballers and airsofters and\h\h

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all these type of people trying trying\h
to get in but they were soon weeded out\h\h

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got it so you you got in though um with other\h
people or did you go in by yourself and then\h\h

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I I I went on my own okay and because of the\h
migration of people coming from all over the world\h\h

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um obviously there's only so many\h
Airheads in Poland and obviously\h\h

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the groups were meeting at airports and then I\h
didn't know any any person here I went on my own\h\h

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and then um because we met at airports going\h
through the same route through the embassies\h\h

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the transport is arranged you just got on a bus\h
you didn't know anybody and then you was taken\h\h

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to this camp and then you obviously you build\h
friendships are on the bus or meet people but I\h\h

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didn't know anyone to go with and then we went\h
to like I said went to yaref and from there we\h\h

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were sort of divided about our previous military\h
experience and perhaps people who didn't have any\h\h

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so the people who didn't have any they were\h
also going to join the legion but they went\h\h

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into sort of a a training sort of six weeks of\h
training so I never saw any of them again John\h\h

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can I just interrupt for a moment just for the\h
benefit of our listeners and viewers I just want\h\h

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to stay John has provided me with documentation\h
on background which will not be revealing which\h\h

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more than substantiates the fact of his British\h
service history which is exemplary and also the\h\h

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fact that he worked with the Ukrainian Army to\h
serve in Ukraine now one of the things that I\h\h

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want to get to John is your role you were part of\h
a team called Bravo Team working I think with a\h\h

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former uh Republic of Korea special forces guy and\h
you were behind the lines at different times doing\h\h

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reconnaissance and targeting Uh Russian Enemy\h
Inside that area really gutsy stuff just before\h\h

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we get to the detail of your UAP sighting which\h
I understand happened in April just give us an\h\h

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account of we're talking to the video that you've\h
already sent me that we'll probably cut into the\h\h

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um we'll probably cut into the story at this stage\h
but give us a description of the kind of work you\h\h

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were doing there's a video that you've shown\h
me that will show some excerpts from here where\h\h

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you're clearly behind the lines and in one case\h
the Russians are literally just outside how close\h\h

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were you well basically a concrete wall we was\h
um on on that video clip um we were sent out to\h\h

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basically find the Russians and and get\h
some information on uh where they're at\h\h

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and what strengths they are so we uh move\h
through a chosen route to a certain building\h\h

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uh that we thought which we deemed would give us\h
a good line of sight uh for the missile systems we\h\h

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had and also for our um Small Arms and um on doing\h
that um we got into the building and this is sort\h\h

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of a a walk-in reconnaissance we hadn't seen the\h
building only on a map so it was quite you know\h\h

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normally we like to wreck everything to make\h
sure it's safe before you use it but it was um

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yeah it was a sort of something we wouldn't\h
normally do anyway we entered the building\h\h

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we cleared the building and then\h
we found at one side there was a\h\h

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um massive hole that a tank could put a hole in a\h
wall and we thought that would be a good position\h\h

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to shoot from our um in-laws and then um as one\h
of our operators spotted a BMP with some infantry\h\h

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he was going to fire that projectile but they were\h
spotted and uh unfortunately one of our operators\h\h

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Otto was shot in the shoulder and we had to\h
clear that building um you're behind you're\h\h

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Behind Enemy Lines you've got a wounded operator\h
I mean this is pretty hairy stuff and you're a\h\h

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foreign national uh I mean you would have been\h
under no Illusions about what would have happened\h\h

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to you if the Russians had actually found you well\h
I had to keep one for myself Ross but um yeah it's\h\h

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it's hairy stuff and I can honestly say the\h
adrenaline is going through your body and it keeps\h\h

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you going and they followed us back basically\h
to the to the Ukrainian line so he was getting\h\h

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chased by a BMP which you can hear foreign on the\h
video you can also hear Small Arms foreigners all\h\h

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the time we've got Otto to get back and so we had\h
to farm maneuver back and then when we got back to\h\h

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the say relatively safely of this Ukrainian\h
lines which is really just a block of flaps\h\h

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we had to deal with artillery as well coming\h
in on us um so it was a bit of a hairy day\h\h

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um now I only cite that video because it's a very\h
good example of what you guys were going through\h\h

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now are you able to share that video right\h
now Ross yeah I can actually yeah I think we\h\h

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should share that um and and while he's doing\h
that uh John let me just ask you a question\h\h

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um you're part of the Bravo Team\h
uh what is that I think people are\h\h

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probably saying well how many people\h
are on it what different nationalities\h\h

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um you know where did you catch your mission you\h
know just how did it so that we can understand\h\h

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when you tell us the rest of the story what's\h
going on there well the the beginning of the war\h\h

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everything was catching up and it was all\h
sort of all hands to the pump bearing in mind\h\h

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because of what Kiev was that the Russians\h
obviously come down from Belarus and I think\h\h

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what they were thinking of we cut off the head\h
of Kiev everything else will tumble so that was\h\h

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their sort of plan and it was like the little\h
guy in the Dutch dike all fingers to the holes\h\h

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and um we was just basically I got there I think\h
it was on the on the Saturday in Kiev and on the\h\h

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Sunday I was on the front line it was that quick\h
the situations on the ground was so fluid that\h\h

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we was just thrust into anywhere and as as your\h
other question what sort of nationalities you were\h\h

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um I we had French Foreign Legion Lads\h
xlads one of them was finished one of them\h\h

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was actually Ukrainian um we had Americans\h
we had obviously British who had Koreans\h\h

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um so and we had a lot of experience in our groups\h
that's in conflicts all over all over the world\h\h

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so and we was more than capable to\h
deal with the threat of the Russians

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[\h__\h] six man

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yeah idea our missiles

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enemy trying to hit missiles okay

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so enemy trying to hit our missiles huh

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let's get it close man yeah hey

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everything is okay yeah yeah we're gonna head\h
back with the uh underpass oh the same route\h\h

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same route we came okay with your guys we'll get\h
to the trucks are you coming with us so far away

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are you coming with us you know what if\h
you're not lucky you'll get it anyway

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if you are lucky you won't get it anyway\h
hey I'll see you next time brother okay\h\h

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all right guys settle up settle up let's move out\h
all right [\h__\h] six yeah let's go rock and roll

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let's go right yeah

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yeah let's go let's go let's go on the night\h
in in question that we're about to get into\h\h

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um how many people were part of Bravo Team I'd say\h
was eight guys at the time okay however there was\h\h

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another team that was a part of the Legion who\h
we didn't have any association with because we\h\h

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work for the uh Ukrainian intelligence they just\h
happened to be on the ground at the Crossing Point\h\h

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the Footbridge we wanted to cross outside open\h
so they would have seen it as well but I have no\h\h

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um contact within those guys I knew none of them\h
um again they were just you know another Legion\h\h

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sort of outfit what I understand happened was\h
that there's a crossing point uh yeah in Kiev\h\h

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across the river from the right side in urban and\h
where is it outside yeah Urban's on the western\h\h

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um suburbs of Kiev so it's like a little city\h
of its own um and it it's got a uh a river\h\h

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on the Eastern edge of urban which we had to cross\h
which were come on to in a minute now there was\h\h

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three Crossing points there was a bridge which\h
is blown as in a uh like a saliva for cars and\h\h

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truck trucks and so forth a Railway Bridge\h
which is gone and a Footbridge which hasn't\h\h

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so um the first op we went on\h
which I sent you a video as well we\h\h

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um on our way back from our first stop there\h
was a little garden center bar around about\h\h

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well I think it was a garden center that sort\h
of place it was night anyway and um we was\h\h

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using that as a holding error waiting for our\h
turn to cross the bridge uh which was blown and\h\h

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basically we'd go underneath the bridge that was\h
plates put across the river and we'd crossed it\h\h

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but unknown to us we was followed by a drone\h
now we can see here this drone total Pitch Black\h\h

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and we're sort of sitting in this sort of garden\h
saying I've pulled up a plastic chair and I'm\h\h

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sat on this plastic chair and I'm eating a wafer\h
you know if you're allowed to get a few uh drink\h\h

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of water having a fire because we've not been\h
able to for the last you know five or six hours\h\h

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and um we're sat there and these rounds start\h
coming in and there's a sort of a little Cops\h\h

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adjacent to this uh building complex we're in and\h
these rounds are going off and I'm meeting my wife\h\h

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I go hmm this is not oh that's a bit close and oh\h
it's even closer and finally they're right on top\h\h

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of us the video shows where you were crossing\h
the night of the UAP sighting a few days later\h\h

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a few days before yeah because that's why\h
yeah the UAP because I was worried about\h\h

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this guy with drones following us to the\h
Footbridge right if that makes sense so I\h\h

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was yeah so roll forward now so basically we've\h
we've described the location it's obviously a\h\h

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very hot Zone yeah I mean when you go through\h
there you are worried because of the previous\h\h

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day's engagement you're worried about being\h
mortared and targeted with drones and artillery\h\h

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that's correct so a few days later you basically\h
come to that same position it's night time and\h\h

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you're coming back from the Russian lines back\h
across the bridge into herbal what happens well\h\h

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just going to correct you on slightly Ross the it\h
was about we crossed about a mile further up the\h\h

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river on the Footbridge and we got we got uh back\h
to that sort of the the earping side of the of of\h\h

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the river and we're waiting there for our time\h
to cross and I'm looking at the sky and we're\h\h

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all sort of an all-round defense waiting to cross\h
and all of a sudden because I was looking at the\h\h

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sky I see three um dimly lit um orange Amber orbs\h
or burnt Amber as I say there's like a brownie\h\h

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orange color but there was only in because I\h
had to sort of rub your eyes and thought am I\h\h

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seeing things because I thought I was tired and\h
I looked up and I did see these these free orbs\h\h

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in a loose triangle shape and they was there for\h
three or four seconds and the next thing there\h\h

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was a a bright light that appeared in the sky\h
and it was about I'd say a thousand foot up and\h\h

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um probably between 30 and 40 feet long and it was\h
a bright light like a camera flash but constant\h\h

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and I'm looking at it and I'm thinking\h
what the hell is that it's not a drone\h\h

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it's not a plane it's not a flare it's not nothing\h
associated with a Battlefield and look and the way\h\h

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hit it flew across the sky it it maintained its\h
altitude it maintained its speed but its speed\h\h

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was only about I'd say AirSpeed about 30 knots so\h
it's quite slow but there's no sound there was no\h\h

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characteristics of a plane you know did it hold a\h
hover at any stage no it didn't now I've done uh\h\h

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I have done aerial photography from a helicopter\h
and you fly at a certain height a certain speed so\h\h

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you maintain so you can get a good uh view for\h
your camera when you're filming and it looked\h\h

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like it was doing some sort of reconnaissance\h
it looked like it was following the river and\h\h

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it was basically the other side of the river was\h
going to the Home Bank as it were the Kiev side\h\h

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there was a defensive line of Ukrainian positions\h
that followed that River all the way across just\h\h

332
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:44,580
in case the Russians took Urban the next sort of\h
stop line would have been that line of defenses\h\h

333
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:52,320
and it was absolutely incredible I cannot I had\h
to pinch myself and other people see it as well\h\h

334
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:58,920
and yeah and nobody reacted to it we didn't\h
fire at it or anything like that we're just\h\h

335
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:08,400
in awe going what is that let me let me just make\h
sure that I've got this in my head so yeah you're\h\h

336
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:14,160
out there and you're looking up and you're seeing\h
these three lights originally I I don't know if\h\h

337
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:20,940
these three lights are moving or do they move into\h
a position no they they I was lit I just happened\h\h

338
00:38:20,940 --> 00:38:26,340
to be looking at a portion of the sky because I\h
was worried about drones and getting mortared from\h\h

339
00:38:26,340 --> 00:38:32,580
what happened to the bridge estate and as I was at\h
the airport portion of the sky free let's say orbs\h\h

340
00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:41,220
come into view from nothing so just work there\h
there and then from there they was there for\h\h

341
00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:48,480
about three or four seconds they disappeared\h
and simultaneously a like I said this craft\h\h

342
00:38:50,460 --> 00:38:59,400
um just appeared just bright light appeared why\h
do you say craft John like give us an idea of the\h\h

343
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:05,340
form that you saw you're initially described\h
a very bright light why do you say craft yeah\h\h

344
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:11,820
because the only thing what I know what\h
creates that bright light in the sky is\h\h

345
00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:16,800
a flare now if I know the characteristics\h
of a flare or we'd call them a shimuli or\h\h

346
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:24,780
parallel or whatever he wants to call them now\h
it wasn't any of those and when you go through\h\h

347
00:39:24,780 --> 00:39:30,600
well my sort of military thinking you go for\h
a process what is that is it this is it that\h\h

348
00:39:32,220 --> 00:39:41,040
and the reason I say craft because it's maintained\h
in altitude it's flew at a constant speed

349
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:52,380
and I I need some gone did you see structure\h
to it though I mean when you say crap yeah\h\h

350
00:39:52,380 --> 00:40:00,120
I've I'll just elaborate on that the the way\h
the light pattern was obviously when when you\h\h

351
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,560
see any lights you can see if it's a headlight\h
of a car because it's round can't you but you\h\h

352
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:13,920
can't actually see the car so what I was looking\h
at almost looked not almost it did it did look\h\h

353
00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:22,500
um a long oval shape um so higher in the\h
middle and then tapered off at the ends

354
00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:32,400
possibly even like the um I was thinking about\h
it sort of today like that like the uh I think\h\h

355
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:37,440
there's a Calvin sighting that sort of diamond\h
shape maybe I don't know but the lights if you\h\h

356
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:43,680
can imagine that shape but Mega Bright Lights\h
coming from it it would create a sort of\h\h

357
00:40:44,220 --> 00:40:50,280
that sort of shape wouldn't it so I'm only\h
surmising but was the light from within the object\h\h

358
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:59,580
or was it around the object it was the object you\h
know it was just so bright in the sky I cannot\h\h

359
00:41:01,020 --> 00:41:06,480
say how bright it I can't put it into words\h
it was so bright okay so let me let me just\h\h

360
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:12,900
again so we've got these three things making\h
what amounts to a triangle would you yeah yeah\h\h

361
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:19,440
let's try it yeah it looks like a triangle\h
and at the same time they disappear and at\h\h

362
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:28,080
that same instant as they're disappearing\h
this craft or bright object appears to me\h\h

363
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:33,480
and I'm you know what do I know it looked\h
like a door it was coming through a door so\h\h

364
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:40,560
it opened with the orbs and the next minute\h
you've got a crafter or the bright light\h\h

365
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:48,300
like a door now that's interesting because if\h
you go through UFO literature there have been\h\h

366
00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:53,880
cases where people have described what they the\h
only word they could come up with was there was\h\h

367
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:59,400
a door in the sky and something came through it\h
so when you use the word door are you are you\h\h

368
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,380
talking in a literal sense that it looked like a\h
door are you saying it was it felt like a doorway

369
00:42:06,660 --> 00:42:16,500
I'm not well I'm that's that's the hard\h
way I can't I can't put my finger on a

370
00:42:19,020 --> 00:42:23,820
a description of it all I can\h
say is when the orbs went out\h\h

371
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:32,160
the bright light come on and it looked like what\h
you don't mean because it was so instantaneous\h\h

372
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:39,120
the lights went out on the orbs and then it's\h
no sooner they got out this bright light was\h\h

373
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:44,700
moving across the sky so to me John you've done\h
it you've done a map that we'll show later and\h\h

374
00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:50,760
you've also done a diagram of the object uh\h
we'll show the diagram of the object and the\h\h

375
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:57,660
map of where this all happened later yeah in\h
the final edit but can I ask you this do you\h\h

376
00:42:57,660 --> 00:43:02,880
think this object you clearly seem to do you\h
think this object was intelligently controlled

377
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:15,060
yeah because things like you take anything what\h
flies in the sky if it flies at a a rate of knots\h\h

378
00:43:15,060 --> 00:43:23,520
stays at the same height you know that's amazing\h
intelligent you know so it wasn't a balloon\h\h

379
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,960
an illuminated balloon or a barrage balloon\h
or something like that no no no no no no no\h\h

380
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,920
um and not only that you're over a Battlefield\h\h

381
00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:37,860
and you don't show your hand you\h
don't go oh look at me in the sky\h\h

382
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:45,360
come and shoot me and not and the other thing that\h
I've sort of mauled about because of air defense\h\h

383
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,400
systems you don't fly a thousand feet up at 30\h
knots because you won't be there for much longer\h\h

384
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,860
and so why didn't somebody shoot at it I mean\h
either on the Russian side or on your side\h\h

385
00:43:55,860 --> 00:44:03,120
because my jaw was on the floor I didn't\h
know what it was because because of your um\h\h

386
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,980
because your brain your military brain\h
I was going through right is it a drone\h\h

387
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:16,500
no don't you don't see drones in Russia until\h
it's too late is it a sorry in Ukraine uh is\h\h

388
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:23,220
it a plane no there's no noise it's moving too\h
slow there's no you know flight characteristics\h\h

389
00:44:24,060 --> 00:44:33,960
there's no sort of trail behind it for you know\h
afterburners or anything like that no noise silent

390
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:41,340
well I just want to uh clarify one other thing\h
then you said that the uh bravo team had eight\h\h

391
00:44:41,340 --> 00:44:46,740
people on including yourself yeah were all\h
eight of you in this location at the same\h\h

392
00:44:46,740 --> 00:44:52,860
time and did the other seven see what you saw\h
they say it the only thing I'm not sure about\h\h

393
00:44:52,860 --> 00:45:00,780
if I saw the orbs because the orbs were very\h
very um there one minute and gone you know\h\h

394
00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:07,440
a couple seconds later and I believe I'm the\h
only one to see the orbs because I was looking\h\h

395
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:14,520
in that portion of the sky at that time I've\h
not questioned everybody but I have when we\h\h

396
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:20,640
come back in off the up I spoke to the people\h
I was bunking with and we was like that's a UAP\h\h

397
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:27,600
that was an American lad and I think there's\h
an Australian lad it was an Australian lad and\h\h

398
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:33,900
we just didn't know what it was you know uh\h
John uh rice had mentioned that Avi Loeb had\h\h

399
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:40,440
written an article recently about the various\h
things that the Ukrainian report was saying\h\h

400
00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:47,640
were unidentified flying objects they were saying\h
I think they called them some one of them they\h\h

401
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:53,520
called um what is it called Phantoms and what was\h
the other thing I don't remember but but so they\h\h

402
00:45:53,520 --> 00:46:00,900
and modes uh analysis was well the last place\h
I'd ever want to study UFOs is in a battlefield\h\h

403
00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:06,120
condition like in Ukraine because they got all\h
manner of [\h__\h] flying around there how would\h\h

404
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:11,340
you know what's what but you are a trained\h
reconnaissance person so I assume that you\h\h

405
00:46:11,340 --> 00:46:17,880
know pretty much the outline of most things that\h
we find in the sky and I I'd like a description\h\h

406
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:24,060
of your training to identify things in the sky\h
so that we can appreciate how you are saying\h\h

407
00:46:24,060 --> 00:46:32,220
this one stands out as not being something that's\h
supposed to be there um shape is is the main thing\h\h

408
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:40,320
um I I suppose when you when you look at sorry\h
because it was quite close you know it was a\h\h

409
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:49,320
thousand feet up probably less than half a mile\h
away so is it a threat is going through my head\h\h

410
00:46:50,820 --> 00:46:56,100
and everyone else has said because you\h
don't know do I need to take cover is\h\h

411
00:46:56,100 --> 00:47:00,660
that an incoming missile that bright light\h
is it you know the multitude of things\h\h

412
00:47:01,380 --> 00:47:09,600
do you think it was interested in the battlefield\h
I mean you've obviously yeah yeah I I yes I do\h\h

413
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:19,980
um because I I need to ration I rationalize\h
everything and um just that's what I would do\h\h

414
00:47:19,980 --> 00:47:25,200
if I was taking pictures or interested in\h
something on the ground from a helicopter\h\h

415
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:31,320
that's what I would do you know perhaps not in\h
on a battlefield like that but perhaps of a a\h\h

416
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:36,720
covert or a concert mission in Northern Ireland or\h
something like that if you want to get pitched to\h\h

417
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:44,880
the Target that's how you would do it but it I can\h
honestly say it was anything that I've ever seen\h\h

418
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:51,060
what what was the time like that you were\h
observing this from the moment that you\h\h

419
00:47:51,060 --> 00:47:56,940
saw the orbs which you said lasted not long and\h
then suddenly you've got this other thing there\h\h

420
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:03,780
what what amount of time are we talking about\h
um I reckon because of the speed and the terrain\h\h

421
00:48:03,780 --> 00:48:08,760
obviously it disappeared from our view it didn't\h
go out it just disappeared because that's right\h\h

422
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:16,140
but I would suggest probably anything between\h
three to five minutes so wow you had eyes on it\h\h

423
00:48:16,140 --> 00:48:21,780
for a while yeah so it just went away and it was\h
like a you know as it disappeared it looked like\h\h

424
00:48:21,780 --> 00:48:27,960
a star or a planet because it just it was\h
that far away obvious question John I mean\h\h

425
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:33,060
um you've obviously taken videos while you were\h
behind the lines filming next to the Russians\h\h

426
00:48:33,060 --> 00:48:38,100
how come there's no video or photography of what\h
you saw if you were watching it for five minutes\h\h

427
00:48:39,660 --> 00:48:45,660
because we was worried about getting shelled\h
and perhaps being killed was more important\h\h

428
00:48:45,660 --> 00:48:51,060
than the UFO at the time in the sky at the time\h
um obviously you have to you have to remember the\h\h

429
00:48:51,060 --> 00:48:56,940
situation within we wasn't in you know he wasn't\h
in a park in London somewhere looking up the Scott\h\h

430
00:48:56,940 --> 00:49:03,840
stories scargazing we was worried about we had\h
more important things like you know our own safety\h\h

431
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:09,180
and protection so we're all in an apple around\h
the fence we're looking out for Russians that just\h\h

432
00:49:09,180 --> 00:49:17,220
happened the big turn up that wasn't that wasn't\h
our sort of main point of concern at the time

433
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:25,020
I could say that makes completely good sense\h
but my question would be after this was over\h\h

434
00:49:25,020 --> 00:49:30,360
and you guys got back to where you came from\h
and now you're you're not going to be shot\h\h

435
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,800
or killed hopefully in that scenario\h
you must have had a time for the the\h\h

436
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:40,320
group of you said holy crap did you see that\h
thing what what was that conversation like\h\h

437
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,920
it was just like like I said I had a chat with\h
my roommates and I've also had a chat with\h\h

438
00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:52,140
with the team leader um and we just\h
don't know what it was it was just like\h\h

439
00:49:53,460 --> 00:49:57,780
because because of the the\h
speed of the optimum was on\h\h

440
00:49:57,780 --> 00:50:03,180
we didn't have time really to you know like sit\h
down we're having a chat now about it and I'm\h\h

441
00:50:03,180 --> 00:50:09,600
talking about it it was an article it wasn't\h
important at the time it was just something

442
00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:17,880
um it's been like a splinter on my\h
brain ever since I I saw it but it's\h\h

443
00:50:19,020 --> 00:50:23,580
um yeah it's just mentally John\h
I know from your service history\h\h

444
00:50:24,660 --> 00:50:30,420
um which you very kindly shared with me that\h
you've seen in combat zones and in different\h\h

445
00:50:30,420 --> 00:50:35,520
parts of different military installations you've\h
seen a lot of military equipment you're very very\h\h

446
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:41,580
well briefed as a reconnaissance surveillance\h
person on what the Western indeed our potential\h\h

447
00:50:41,580 --> 00:50:47,340
enemies have is there any technology that you\h
can think of that can explain what you saw\h\h

448
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:57,060
no um no dude no honestly wasn't there isn't\h
and you know I know that on this phenomena\h\h

449
00:50:57,060 --> 00:51:02,280
people say was it you know military\h
black technology or something like that\h\h

450
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:13,020
but what would be the purpose of that at that\h
particular time over that area showing itself to\h\h

451
00:51:13,020 --> 00:51:19,740
maybe the Russians as well as the ukrainians what\h
would be the mission of that particular craft if\h\h

452
00:51:19,740 --> 00:51:25,380
it was a black grass no just just so I'm clear\h
one other thing that I think that you've given\h\h

453
00:51:25,380 --> 00:51:33,300
me in a map which we'll show to our audience in\h
the map it clearly tracks the river which is the\h\h

454
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:41,220
dividing line between the Russians in I think the\h
South or the East and the Kiev in the in the north\h\h

455
00:51:41,220 --> 00:51:51,120
is that correct yeah well it was there was people\h
in Urban from the ukrainians but that line was the\h\h

456
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:59,220
neck defensive line if the Russians took Urban\h
so that River would have been a an obstacle for\h\h

457
00:51:59,220 --> 00:52:06,000
the Russians to get across that's why the bridges\h
have gone so that would have been so that UAP flew\h\h

458
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:13,380
a foreigner River with basically the Russians on\h
the um Eastern side and ukrainians on the western\h\h

459
00:52:13,380 --> 00:52:20,760
side so flew yeah and this is this is April this\h
is around about the time do you have an exact date\h\h

460
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:28,500
of when this occurred no I don't I don't know if\h
there's a Time dates down on any of that video but

461
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:36,900
and I thought this was a very important point when\h
we discussed this off camera this is a key moment\h\h

462
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:43,620
in the battle for key isn't it this is one of the\h
days where it's a deciding point for whether or\h\h

463
00:52:43,620 --> 00:52:53,520
not the Russians are going to take Kiev yeah um\h
if Urban would have fell The Next Step was key\h\h

464
00:52:55,080 --> 00:53:01,380
so this is a very strategically important\h
moment in the battle to help save Ukraine\h\h

465
00:53:01,380 --> 00:53:09,000
yes it was yeah uh John you've done a a pretty\h
good job of of maintaining your professional\h\h

466
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:15,600
distance and telling us what you know and saying\h
what you don't know about the whole sighting\h\h

467
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:23,580
my question is let's clearly if this happened in\h
April there's been a number of months where you've\h\h

468
00:53:23,580 --> 00:53:30,720
been living with this moment and I'm wondering\h
in your Quiet Moments inside your own head as\h\h

469
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:36,420
you try to make sense of it what do you think\h
was going on and again I know that part this\h\h

470
00:53:36,420 --> 00:53:42,600
you've you've laid out yeah what what happened\h
very clearly and journalistically now I'm asking\h\h

471
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:48,540
you to just tell us what your thought process was\h
what do you think you saw and why was it there

472
00:53:49,380 --> 00:53:57,660
I wish I knew um my thought process as I've\h
already mentioned it definitely wasn't military\h\h

473
00:53:58,620 --> 00:54:05,760
definitely just well it definitely wasn't a\h
military item of equipment that I'd ever seen\h\h

474
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,100
ever was it a solid object do\h
you think it was a solid object\h\h

475
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,500
I'm looking at it it's like going back to the\h
car headlights you're looking into bright lights\h\h

476
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:24,420
I don't know I can't I'm not going to guess all\h
I can say is like I said earlier the shape of it\h\h

477
00:54:24,420 --> 00:54:31,020
appeared to be you know a long oval with tapered\h
ends you know and there's a very bright light\h\h

478
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:38,400
and then that's all I can say yeah you\h
certainly know your your share of things\h\h

479
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:43,860
that are flying around in the sky and I\h
think your case demonstrates something\h\h

480
00:54:43,860 --> 00:54:47,040
that people have talked about for years so\h
I just want to get your thoughts on this\h\h

481
00:54:47,940 --> 00:54:54,540
um clearly anything of the capacity to do some of\h
the things that UAP have been described as doing\h\h

482
00:54:54,540 --> 00:55:01,020
could figure out how not to shine bright lights\h
in the night sky right and yet and yet they do\h\h

483
00:55:01,620 --> 00:55:07,920
quite often in terms of their descriptions why\h
would somebody shine bright lights in a war zone\h\h

484
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:15,840
they wouldn't and that and that's the thing it's\h
not you know unless it's a you know a very uh\h\h

485
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,240
a deception plan for some for something\h
but nothing happened it's just a bright\h\h

486
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:28,200
light appeared from like I said the free orbs and\h
flew across the sky at a set out due to set speed\h\h

487
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:35,280
and went outside there was no reason that I could\h
possibly think of why it was in that battle space\h\h

488
00:55:36,660 --> 00:55:44,400
and did you report this to any of the command\h
structure upstairs John no no and that was

489
00:55:47,580 --> 00:55:55,260
um One is because I mean uh we were foreigners\h
and I didn't want to go to Ukrainian\h\h

490
00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:00,420
you know and say that I've just seen this bright\h
light in the sky it'd be like what you've been\h\h

491
00:56:00,420 --> 00:56:07,560
smoking dude what's the code first came back um\h
a lot there was obviously there's a stigma to it\h\h

492
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:14,640
I've I've sat at home since I've\h
been back and I've been reflecting\h\h

493
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:21,240
quite rightly as you mentioned Bryce what is\h
what I see and uh it just got to the point uh\h\h

494
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:27,180
you know about a week ago whenever it was I just\h
had to you know just get it off my chest so I sent\h\h

495
00:56:27,180 --> 00:56:34,800
the email to to Ross and say this is what I said\h
and this is how I'm here today um yeah it was a\h\h

496
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:44,340
it's been a mad experience for me you know I'm I'm\h
coming on this program I I love your program guys\h\h

497
00:56:44,340 --> 00:56:51,900
I've seen it before and everything else but it's\h
my reputation as well but I'm I'm I'm hanging out\h\h

498
00:56:51,900 --> 00:57:00,540
there yeah I'm going to get some Flack for it\h
I'm sure probably mates but um the bottom line\h\h

499
00:57:00,540 --> 00:57:06,060
is the problem is that there is this stigma I\h
mean Bryce and I interviewed Ryan Graves the\h\h

500
00:57:06,060 --> 00:57:11,820
um fighter pilot former fighter pilot a few weeks\h
ago and Ryan talked about that same stigma stigma\h\h

501
00:57:11,820 --> 00:57:19,260
but really ultimately what you're talking about is\h
a potential national security issue I mean you're\h\h

502
00:57:19,260 --> 00:57:24,720
there on a battlefield you're you're literally\h
in a position where days earlier you've come\h\h

503
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:31,320
under artillery and mortifier for good reason\h
you're very very worried about being detected\h\h

504
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:37,200
the Russians are trying to kill you and then all\h
of a sudden there's this weird highly illuminated\h\h

505
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:42,660
object hovering a thousand feet above you by any\h
definition that's a military concern isn't it\h\h

506
00:57:43,260 --> 00:57:49,800
yeah it is and I I don't know what the um\h
ukrainians have on their air defense systems\h\h

507
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:57,060
or radar which they would have had around\h
here yeah you know was that UAP picked up\h\h

508
00:57:58,380 --> 00:58:03,420
I I have no idea um and that might be\h
something to look into from your end\h\h

509
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:12,060
um because it was a thousand feet up uh John\h
a personal question just because I I'm always\h\h

510
00:58:12,060 --> 00:58:15,900
intrigued there's always a personal part of\h
this what does your wife think about all this\h\h

511
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:20,640
what is she what conversations have you had\h
when did you tell her what does she think\h\h

512
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:28,260
what does she think about you being public you\h
know talk to us um she doesn't know yet okay

513
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:36,540
we broke some nudes here we made out of broken\h
news to the world but we've broken to his wife\h\h

514
00:58:36,540 --> 00:58:43,380
that's good yeah all right so uh no she doesn't\h
know yet but I'm supposed to um what did she\h\h

515
00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:51,600
say you've told her though about it haven't you no\h
not yet no no um so this this this this will be it\h\h

516
00:58:52,380 --> 00:59:02,640
um I it is quite no not embarrassing but it is\h
quite it's quite a big thing for me to be on here\h\h

517
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:09,420
talking about something that the words are coming\h
out my mouth and I can't believe I'm saying them\h\h

518
00:59:09,420 --> 00:59:16,500
but it that's what I saw and I'm not gonna\h
sugarcoat it for anybody I'm you know I'm 49 in\h\h

519
00:59:16,500 --> 00:59:22,860
January and to be honest now I'm starting to think\h
I don't care what other people think but more\h\h

520
00:59:22,860 --> 00:59:28,680
importantly why should you I mean the bottom line\h
is this is what Military and Commercial Witnesses\h\h

521
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:33,720
you know commercial pilot Witnesses particularly\h
this is what should be happening people should be\h\h

522
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:39,360
coming forward and we need to get rid of this\h
stigma that's quite unnecessarily attached to\h\h

523
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:46,860
this issue don't we yeah I I think I think it's\h
going you know I think it is happening slowly but\h\h

524
00:59:46,860 --> 00:59:54,240
um the mainstream media nearly kick up\h
your ass and they need to get involved\h\h

525
00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:02,880
you know prior to this event happening to you John\h
what what was your thought about the UFO UAP issue\h\h

526
01:00:03,420 --> 01:00:12,540
if any I I've always believed that we're not\h
alone I need because if you do if you're not\h\h

527
01:00:12,540 --> 01:00:16,860
common what the equation is now but if you\h
do the maths or the size of the universe\h\h

528
01:00:17,940 --> 01:00:25,980
you know just that simple equation you know\h
we're not alone so that I've always looked up\h\h

529
01:00:25,980 --> 01:00:30,540
at the sky you know I've seen satellites and\h
stuff like that I think oh is that is that\h\h

530
01:00:30,540 --> 01:00:34,740
something is that something but no it's always\h
been a satellite and this is this site was\h\h

531
01:00:34,740 --> 01:00:39,960
totally totally different but that's the first\h
time you've ever seen anything anomalous John\h\h

532
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:48,000
I I believe I saw uh something about 10 years ago\h
when I was living up in Lincolnshire and um I did\h\h

533
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:55,320
report it to a local newspaper um that was a sort\h
of an orange orb and that was probably about three\h\h

534
01:00:55,320 --> 01:01:01,920
to four thousand feet up and it wasn't it wasn't\h
an aircraft but I couldn't I couldn't discount it\h\h

535
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:08,820
as one of those um it could have been one of those\h
Chinese lamp things but again that was it wasn't\h\h

536
01:01:10,380 --> 01:01:16,860
um that was a steady height and a steady speed\h
and that looked like it was following the river\h\h

537
01:01:16,860 --> 01:01:25,920
route towards King's Lynn um out to the wash and\h
out to the North Sea but I couldn't 100 say that\h\h

538
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:32,340
wasn't a Chinese Lancer to be honest but it looked\h
enormous to me and so John tell me this so the one\h\h

539
01:01:32,340 --> 01:01:39,060
thing I'm very happy to hear if you were you were\h
listening and watching need to know episodes in\h\h

540
01:01:39,060 --> 01:01:47,520
urine would you yeah I did yeah um obviously uh in\h
in the uh in the time we had you know between Ops\h\h

541
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:53,820
um we had one of the um Elma Skye\h
link fees so we could get internet\h\h

542
01:01:55,200 --> 01:02:02,040
um so that yeah I've just interested in\h
something like uh like Lou and uh Jeremy\h\h

543
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:06,660
you know I've always listened to what\h
they they want to say in it it's it's\h\h

544
01:02:06,660 --> 01:02:11,460
very interesting it's very interesting the\h
guy the work you guys do behind the scenes\h\h

545
01:02:11,460 --> 01:02:19,380
because it's not just you know the sightings\h
it's also the the the mountain of paperwork\h\h

546
01:02:19,380 --> 01:02:24,660
the government being a part where all governments\h
being a pain at the backside to to release stuff\h\h

547
01:02:24,660 --> 01:02:32,040
and trying to link it's like it's like having\h
a jigsaw puzzle and you're nearly completed it\h\h

548
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:36,900
but your little brother's hid five of the pieces\h
all over the house and you're trying to find them\h\h

549
01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:45,480
to finish a puzzle but I think we're we're close\h
to finishing that puzzle but it's going to take a\h\h

550
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:51,720
lot of work to do uh John when we started uh the\h
show and you were you were able to listen to what\h\h

551
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:57,240
we were talking about you know we were talking\h
about the idea that the energy behind Congress\h\h

552
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:03,480
seems to be National Security that they're they're\h
talking about we need to know this not because\h\h

553
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:11,100
we're all that interested in are we alone but\h
we're interested in are we safe right so yeah\h\h

554
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:16,380
people have different responses when they see\h
something anomalous some people are in awe some\h\h

555
01:03:16,380 --> 01:03:21,900
people are afraid some people don't see it at all\h
uh while other people may be looking at the same\h\h

556
01:03:21,900 --> 01:03:28,680
thing and seeing it what was your overriding\h
sense are do you feel we have something to be\h\h

557
01:03:29,220 --> 01:03:35,340
concerned about do you feel that there is a\h
threat behind the kind of thing that you saw

558
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,020
that's a good question um

559
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:48,600
I don't I I at that time I didn't bear in mind\h
I was in a war zone for that sighting I didn't\h\h

560
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:53,940
feel threatened at all I was just I was just\h
in awe of it uh to be honest but in general\h\h

561
01:03:54,600 --> 01:04:02,400
I suppose you only sort of safety issue if you've\h
got uncontrolled things flying around in the sky\h\h

562
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:09,360
you know you've got aircraft helicopters you\h
know you've got Weber balloons you've got drones\h\h

563
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:18,660
something sometimes going to get hit and fall\h
out the sky so that's the only sort of fret I see\h\h

564
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:28,260
um well I can perceive with with um anomalies\h
in the sky well I for one John applaud I'm sure\h\h

565
01:04:28,260 --> 01:04:32,820
Bryce does as well I think it's commendable\h
that you've approached it and come forward and\h\h

566
01:04:32,820 --> 01:04:37,800
I think what you've described of what you saw\h
on a battlefield in Ukraine on the outskirts\h\h

567
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:44,700
of Kiev a peak moment in the war a decisive\h
moment in the battle to save Kiev from Russian\h\h

568
01:04:44,700 --> 01:04:51,240
invasion I think it's very significant and\h
just maybe there was just maybe there was some\h\h

569
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:59,100
non-human intelligence taking an interest in\h
what is probably going to be remembered as a\h\h

570
01:04:59,100 --> 01:05:04,980
very important moment in history and I I want\h
to thank you very very much for for sharing\h\h

571
01:05:04,980 --> 01:05:14,220
your account with us that's what is my pleasure\h
um yeah it's uh John we are we often people in\h\h

572
01:05:14,220 --> 01:05:18,900
your position often get thanked for their service\h
I want to thank you for your observation I want\h\h

573
01:05:18,900 --> 01:05:25,320
to thank you for coming forward with it and I I\h
hope that the lesson uh that that this very show\h\h

574
01:05:26,100 --> 01:05:32,340
makes and that your appearance makes is that\h
we're going to need more of this not less we\h\h

575
01:05:32,340 --> 01:05:38,400
need more people speaking in the public forum\h
and not behind closed doors and not for reports\h\h

576
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:43,800
that never get seen by the public so what you've\h
done uh I well I'm just going to speak up for you\h\h

577
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:49,620
to your wife oh thanks I'm glad that John did\h
this he's a true hero to come forward like this\h\h

578
01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:59,400
and I hope you take her out to dinner and and\h
and give her the bottom line all right now well\h\h

579
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:04,140
John we're all we're all we can all be accused of\h
that but listen I also do want to thank you for\h\h

580
01:06:04,140 --> 01:06:09,960
your service I mean we all watch on with horror at\h
what's unfolding in Ukraine and we yeah powerless\h\h

581
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:15,240
and it's wonderful that a person with your skill\h
set was able to go over there and have the courage\h\h

582
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:21,300
to go and do what you did which was incredibly\h
Brave behind the lines and I do know I'm in touch\h\h

583
01:06:21,300 --> 01:06:27,300
with other members of your team who hopefully\h
in future episodes of need to know will be able\h\h

584
01:06:27,300 --> 01:06:33,660
to corroborate what you saw and really just want\h
to say thank you thank you very very much for uh\h\h

585
01:06:33,660 --> 01:06:38,040
for joining us and I think we actually have to\h
bring it to an end Bryce that even though this\h\h

586
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:44,040
has been a very compelling episode yeah we're\h
coming to an end of uh this episode of need to\h\h

587
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:49,380
know but I can assure you we will be covering\h
this issue we will be approaching the Ukrainian\h\h

588
01:06:49,380 --> 01:06:54,900
government and asking them if they had radar we'll\h
try and get some more details on exactly when this\h\h

589
01:06:54,900 --> 01:07:01,680
incident occurred Bryce and I will probably put an\h
article up on uh the trail of the sources medium\h\h

590
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:07,980
page that we operate that gives more detail of\h
this account and um I think that brings this\h\h

591
01:07:07,980 --> 01:07:13,080
episode of need to know to an end and thank you\h
very much to you John Chapman and welcome we'll\h\h